I never eat "plant based meats" but have been interested in two: plain TVP (Texturized Vegetable Protein) made from defatted soy but unfortunately the only TVP available where I live (Mexico) is made from GMO, pesticide laden, soy and the fat is removed with carcinogenic solvents like Hexane so I won't touch that. An organic TVP made without solvents is available from the US but it's ridiculously expensive so that's also a "no". The second possible option, in a year or two, is a mycoprotein made with oats in a dry fermentation process that is quite different from Quorn's wet fermentation process. I think Millow may be a lot cleaner than Quorn since I believe it has just 2 ingredients: oats and mycoprotein. I've contacted the company (Millow in Sweden) to get nutrition data from them. Currently, their products are only available in Sweden but next year they are scheduled for distribution in Scandinavia and Europe. Ben, let us know if you are able to try it next year re taste, texture, ingredients, and if it looks like a safe plant based meat alternative. Thanks.
HI Tom. I must admit I’ve never really looked into how TVP is made. @Faye Levy was just asking a question about it. It sounds as though finding an organic supplier might be worthwhile, especially for someone who eats a lot.
I’ve never heard of Millow before. It sounds like an interesting development, though I’ve never been very sure why you’d eat something that imitates meat if you don’t want to eat meat. Why not just find some great recipes based on whole plants?
What are the studies on plant based meats in animal studies? It’s harder to make sense in human studies. People studies are harder to control and design.
I am more a believer in mice. They are more trustworthy than people.
HI Michael. There really haven’t been many studies in animal models. They tend to be used to assess the safety of novel ingredients, and plant-based meat alternatives use the typical components used in many ultra-processed foods.
It can be hard to impute the implications for long-term human health from animal studies. Toxicology studies are generally considered helpful. If a compound causes liver or kidney toxicity in mice, it will likely do the same in humans. Metabolic effects, such as alterations in insulin sensitivity, may also apply to humans, but not always. When it comes to effects on the incidence of cardiovascular disease or longevity, for example, they’re really not much help. You’ll know this from your own field; the immunology of mice and humans has similarities and differences.
The human diet is also much more varied than a lab mouse, as is our environment and genetics. That’s why the most helpful information comes from human studies extended over decades, even though, as is implicit in your question, these human studies also bring lots of noise. Hence we wait for the results of multiple studies to draw any conclusions, rather than being overly influenced by a single study that may end up being an outlier.
For a time I was eating a plant based sausage in the AM. I hadn’t really looked at the ingredients but once I did I stopped and never went back. I wasn’t even eating it to avoid sausage or whatever - it was simply more convenient.
Most often hear plant based meat touted as an alternative for real meat. Ie steaks, pork chops, lamb. Eat plant based meat they say: save your body and save the plant. I don’t think I’ve ever heard them described as an alternative to sausage etc. I’ll take my ribeye any day of the week (though usually only occasionally) over the UPF plant based meat.
Hi Carrie. Most of the plant-based meat alternatives tend to be copies of processed meat as it's so much harder to convert a plant-based paste, which is essentially what they're working with, into something that looks like, tastes like, and has the texture of a lamb chop or a steak. It's much easier to stuff it into a sausage, or coat it in breadcrumbs to form a nugget or cutlet.
While eating lots of red meat doesn't align well with long term health, I suspect you'd do much better eating a quality piece of red meat, like your ribeye, once a week rather than having plant-based meat alternatives most days.
Oh absolutely on the ease or not of replication. What was hearing was “give up red meat entirely” and eat this instead. Not “try a plant based steak”.
And, That was the conclusion I came to as well re being better off with the occasional good quality actual red meat. It’s been at least 5 years since I had a plant based alternative.
Hi Faye. Yes, TVP and protein powders are all ultra-processed foods. That makes things complicated, doesn’t it!
As always, these things come down to risks and benefits. For a younger adult, chomping on protein bars because you’re hoping to build muscle exposes you to ultra-processed snacks that are more likely to be harmful than helpful in the long run. Younger folk can and should get all the protein they need from regular, whole foods.
However, if we look at an older adult who needs lots more protein to overcome age-related muscle loss, it can be very challenging to get those quantities of protein from whole food, especially if your diet is largely based around plants. In this case, the TVP or protein powder, whilst ultra-processed, offsets the greater risk of muscle loss leading to frailty.
I like fish, eggs, and whey protein. Cheese. I have been a close friend of cows, pigs, sheep and chickens. I do not like the idea so much of eating them. I very occasionally do however.
I hear you, Julie. Once you’ve spent time around domesticated animals and seen how they each have their own personality, it becomes very hard to eat them.
Here on the farm, I’m surrounded by hares, deer, pheasant and the like. If the zombie apocalypse ever happens, I’ll be out with them eating the grass. I couldn’t bring myself to eat any of them!
Thank you Dr Jones - Now this is an essay I feel I would read back in the day in my EPH days. Meaning, this is one way science can be used in helpful meaningful ways to help us make better, read healthier, nformed decisions.
Hi Kirsten. I didn’t address the environmental impact or the ethical issues of eating animals as that wasn’t the remit of this article. That’s not to say that either are not important.
If we’re concerned about the environment, which we should be, we’re far better off eating whole plants, not ones that have been processed through several industrial processes before they end up in the final product in the grocery store. That’s a whole lot of fossil fuels that will have burned for the processing.
I never eat "plant based meats" but have been interested in two: plain TVP (Texturized Vegetable Protein) made from defatted soy but unfortunately the only TVP available where I live (Mexico) is made from GMO, pesticide laden, soy and the fat is removed with carcinogenic solvents like Hexane so I won't touch that. An organic TVP made without solvents is available from the US but it's ridiculously expensive so that's also a "no". The second possible option, in a year or two, is a mycoprotein made with oats in a dry fermentation process that is quite different from Quorn's wet fermentation process. I think Millow may be a lot cleaner than Quorn since I believe it has just 2 ingredients: oats and mycoprotein. I've contacted the company (Millow in Sweden) to get nutrition data from them. Currently, their products are only available in Sweden but next year they are scheduled for distribution in Scandinavia and Europe. Ben, let us know if you are able to try it next year re taste, texture, ingredients, and if it looks like a safe plant based meat alternative. Thanks.
HI Tom. I must admit I’ve never really looked into how TVP is made. @Faye Levy was just asking a question about it. It sounds as though finding an organic supplier might be worthwhile, especially for someone who eats a lot.
I’ve never heard of Millow before. It sounds like an interesting development, though I’ve never been very sure why you’d eat something that imitates meat if you don’t want to eat meat. Why not just find some great recipes based on whole plants?
What are the studies on plant based meats in animal studies? It’s harder to make sense in human studies. People studies are harder to control and design.
I am more a believer in mice. They are more trustworthy than people.
HI Michael. There really haven’t been many studies in animal models. They tend to be used to assess the safety of novel ingredients, and plant-based meat alternatives use the typical components used in many ultra-processed foods.
It can be hard to impute the implications for long-term human health from animal studies. Toxicology studies are generally considered helpful. If a compound causes liver or kidney toxicity in mice, it will likely do the same in humans. Metabolic effects, such as alterations in insulin sensitivity, may also apply to humans, but not always. When it comes to effects on the incidence of cardiovascular disease or longevity, for example, they’re really not much help. You’ll know this from your own field; the immunology of mice and humans has similarities and differences.
The human diet is also much more varied than a lab mouse, as is our environment and genetics. That’s why the most helpful information comes from human studies extended over decades, even though, as is implicit in your question, these human studies also bring lots of noise. Hence we wait for the results of multiple studies to draw any conclusions, rather than being overly influenced by a single study that may end up being an outlier.
For a time I was eating a plant based sausage in the AM. I hadn’t really looked at the ingredients but once I did I stopped and never went back. I wasn’t even eating it to avoid sausage or whatever - it was simply more convenient.
Most often hear plant based meat touted as an alternative for real meat. Ie steaks, pork chops, lamb. Eat plant based meat they say: save your body and save the plant. I don’t think I’ve ever heard them described as an alternative to sausage etc. I’ll take my ribeye any day of the week (though usually only occasionally) over the UPF plant based meat.
Hi Carrie. Most of the plant-based meat alternatives tend to be copies of processed meat as it's so much harder to convert a plant-based paste, which is essentially what they're working with, into something that looks like, tastes like, and has the texture of a lamb chop or a steak. It's much easier to stuff it into a sausage, or coat it in breadcrumbs to form a nugget or cutlet.
While eating lots of red meat doesn't align well with long term health, I suspect you'd do much better eating a quality piece of red meat, like your ribeye, once a week rather than having plant-based meat alternatives most days.
Oh absolutely on the ease or not of replication. What was hearing was “give up red meat entirely” and eat this instead. Not “try a plant based steak”.
And, That was the conclusion I came to as well re being better off with the occasional good quality actual red meat. It’s been at least 5 years since I had a plant based alternative.
Thank you for the interesting information.
Do you consider TVP a highly processed food?
I eat it every day.
What about protein powder? Are these foods to avoid?
Hi Faye. Yes, TVP and protein powders are all ultra-processed foods. That makes things complicated, doesn’t it!
As always, these things come down to risks and benefits. For a younger adult, chomping on protein bars because you’re hoping to build muscle exposes you to ultra-processed snacks that are more likely to be harmful than helpful in the long run. Younger folk can and should get all the protein they need from regular, whole foods.
However, if we look at an older adult who needs lots more protein to overcome age-related muscle loss, it can be very challenging to get those quantities of protein from whole food, especially if your diet is largely based around plants. In this case, the TVP or protein powder, whilst ultra-processed, offsets the greater risk of muscle loss leading to frailty.
I like fish, eggs, and whey protein. Cheese. I have been a close friend of cows, pigs, sheep and chickens. I do not like the idea so much of eating them. I very occasionally do however.
I hear you, Julie. Once you’ve spent time around domesticated animals and seen how they each have their own personality, it becomes very hard to eat them.
Here on the farm, I’m surrounded by hares, deer, pheasant and the like. If the zombie apocalypse ever happens, I’ll be out with them eating the grass. I couldn’t bring myself to eat any of them!
Thank you Dr Jones - Now this is an essay I feel I would read back in the day in my EPH days. Meaning, this is one way science can be used in helpful meaningful ways to help us make better, read healthier, nformed decisions.
Thanks for those kind words! I’m happy I was able to get you reminiscing!
You are completely ignoring the environmental impact though, and as a human on this planet, we cannot afford to do that.
Hi Kirsten. I didn’t address the environmental impact or the ethical issues of eating animals as that wasn’t the remit of this article. That’s not to say that either are not important.
If we’re concerned about the environment, which we should be, we’re far better off eating whole plants, not ones that have been processed through several industrial processes before they end up in the final product in the grocery store. That’s a whole lot of fossil fuels that will have burned for the processing.